39th Crown: Difference between revisions
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'''[[Lions of Ansteorra|Lion]]:''' Tarl Godric the Brokentoe ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Tarl+Godric+the+Brokentoe&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3923&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | '''[[Lions of Ansteorra|Lion]]:''' [[Tarl Godric the Brokentoe]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Tarl+Godric+the+Brokentoe&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3923&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | ||
'''Queen's Champion:''' [[Brendan MacEwan|Brendan McEwen]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Brendan+McEwen&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=4447&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on&AchieveReg=on OP]) | '''Queen's Champion:''' [[Brendan MacEwan|Brendan McEwen]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Brendan+McEwen&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=4447&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on&AchieveReg=on OP]) | ||
Line 42: | Line 46: | ||
'''Queen's Champion:''' [[Miguel Sebastian de Oporto]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Miguel+Sebastian+de+Oporto&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=744&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | '''Queen's Champion:''' [[Miguel Sebastian de Oporto]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Miguel+Sebastian+de+Oporto&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=744&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | ||
'''Kingdom Warlord:''' Aaron MacGregor ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Aaron+MacGregor&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3452 OP]) | '''Kingdom Warlord:''' [[Aaron MacGregor]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Aaron+MacGregor&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3452 OP]) | ||
'''Bard:''' [[Willow de Wisp]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Willow+de+Wisp&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=6&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | '''Bard:''' [[Willow de Wisp]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Willow+de+Wisp&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=6&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | ||
'''King's Champion:''' Gunthar Jonsson ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Gunthar+Jonsson&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=4819&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on&AchieveReg=on OP]) | '''King's Champion:''' [[Gunthar Jonsson]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Gunthar+Jonsson&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=4819&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on&AchieveReg=on OP]) | ||
'''Queen's Blade of Honor:''' Donovan Fitzpatrick ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Donovan+Fitzpatrick&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2112&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | '''Queen's Blade of Honor:''' [[Donovan Fitzpatrick]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Donovan+Fitzpatrick&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2112&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | ||
'''King's Lancer:''' Murdoc ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Murdoc&id=3561 OP]) | '''King's Lancer:''' [[Murdoc]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Murdoc&id=3561 OP]) | ||
'''King's Blade of Chivalry:''' Alexis la Bouche ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Alexis+la+Bouche&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3561 OP]) | '''King's Blade of Chivalry:''' [[Alexis la Bouche]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Alexis+la+Bouche&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3561 OP]) | ||
[[File:Barn & Kat 2.jpg|200px|thumb|left|]] | |||
'''King's Gauntlets''' | '''King's Gauntlets''' | ||
*Abdullah bin Omar ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Abdullah+bin+Omar&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=213&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | *[[Abdullah bin Omar]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Abdullah+bin+Omar&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=213&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | ||
*Anastacia Marie Travarra ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Anastacia+Marie+Travarra&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=15&NameReg=on OP]) | *[[Anastacia Marie Travarra]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Anastacia+Marie+Travarra&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=15&NameReg=on OP]) | ||
*Dayib bin Omar ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Dayib+bin+Omar&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=309&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on&AchieveReg=on OP]) | *[[Dayib bin Omar]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Dayib+bin+Omar&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=309&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on&AchieveReg=on OP]) | ||
*Donovan Fitzpatrick ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Donovan+Fitzpatrick&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2112&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | *[[Donovan Fitzpatrick]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Donovan+Fitzpatrick&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2112&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | ||
*Gitana de Castile ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Gitana+de+Castile&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=1325 OP]) | *[[Gitana de Castile]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Gitana+de+Castile&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=1325 OP]) | ||
*Karl Sturmfeuer ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Karl+Sturmfeuer&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2036 OP]) | *[[Karl Sturmfeuer]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Karl+Sturmfeuer&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2036 OP]) | ||
*Tarl Godric the Brokentoe ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Tarl+Godric+the+Brokentoe&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3923&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | *[[Tarl Godric the Brokentoe]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Tarl+Godric+the+Brokentoe&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3923&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | ||
'''Queen's Gloves''' | '''Queen's Gloves''' | ||
*Aelfwyn Regenward ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Aelfwyn+Regenward&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2734&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | *[[Aelfwyn Regenward]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Aelfwyn+Regenward&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2734&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | ||
*Gitana de Castile ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Gitana+de+Castile&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=1325 OP]) | *[[Gitana de Castile]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Gitana+de+Castile&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=1325 OP]) | ||
*Gunhilda Adeleva Amberstar ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Gunhilda+Adeleva+Amberstar&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=71 OP]) | *[[Gunhilda Adeleva Amberstar]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Gunhilda+Adeleva+Amberstar&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=71 OP]) | ||
*Lucais du Belier ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Lucais+du+Belier&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2102&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | *[[Lucais du Belier]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Lucais+du+Belier&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2102&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | ||
*Marion inghean u’ Ruanadha ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Marion+inghean+u%92+Ruanadha&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3085&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | *[[Marion inghean u’ Ruanadha]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Marion+inghean+u%92+Ruanadha&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3085&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) | ||
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|[[Wilhelm Von Buch|Wilhelm von Buch]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Wilhelm+von+Buch&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3259 OP]) || 1998-08-14 || KSCA | |[[Wilhelm Von Buch|Wilhelm von Buch]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Wilhelm+von+Buch&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3259 OP]) || 1998-08-14 || KSCA | ||
|- | |- | ||
|Corinne Elizabeth Drake ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Corinne+Elizabeth+Drake&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=4760&NameReg=on OP]) || 1998-09-12 || Laurel | |[[Corinne Elizabeth Drake]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Corinne+Elizabeth+Drake&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=4760&NameReg=on OP]) || 1998-09-12 || Laurel | ||
|- | |- | ||
|[[Anastacia Marie Travarra]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Anastacia+Marie+Travarra&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=15&NameReg=on OP]) || 1998-09-26 || Pelican | |[[Anastacia Marie Travarra]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Anastacia+Marie+Travarra&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=15&NameReg=on OP]) || 1998-09-26 || Pelican | ||
|- | |- | ||
|Karl der Gaenger ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Karl+der+Gaenger&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=1180&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1998-09-26 || Pelican | |[[Karl der Gaenger]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Karl+der+Gaenger&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=1180&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1998-09-26 || Pelican | ||
|- | |- | ||
|Xene Theriane ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Xene+Theriane&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2731&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1998-09-26 || Laurel | |[[Xene Theriane]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Xene+Theriane&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2731&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1998-09-26 || Laurel | ||
|- | |- | ||
|Ulf Gunnarsson ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Ulf+Gunnarsson&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=4850&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1998-10-10 || Laurel | |[[Ulf Gunnarsson]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Ulf+Gunnarsson&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=4850&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1998-10-10 || Laurel | ||
|- | |- | ||
|Henri le Hibou du Bois ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Henri+le+Hibou+du+Bois&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=4637&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on&AchieveReg=on OP]) || 1998-10-24 || Pelican | |[[Henri le Hibou du Bois]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Henri+le+Hibou+du+Bois&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=4637&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on&AchieveReg=on OP]) || 1998-10-24 || Pelican | ||
|- | |- | ||
|Robin of Gilwell ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Robin+of+Gilwell&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2244&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1998-11-07 || Laurel | |[[Robin of Gilwell]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Robin+of+Gilwell&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2244&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1998-11-07 || Laurel | ||
|- | |- | ||
|Teleri ferch Pawl ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Teleri+ferch+Pawl&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3982&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on&AchieveReg=on OP]) || 1998-11-21 || Laurel | |[[Teleri ferch Pawl]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Teleri+ferch+Pawl&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=3982&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on&AchieveReg=on OP]) || 1998-11-21 || Laurel | ||
|- | |- | ||
|[[Beorhlic | |[[Beorhlic Folcwineson]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Beorhtlic%20Folcwineson&id=662 OP]) || 1998-12-12 || Laurel | ||
|- | |- | ||
|[[Gunhilda Adeleva Amberstar]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Gunhilda+Adeleva+Amberstar&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=71 OP]) || 1998-12-12 || Pelican | |[[Gunhilda Adeleva Amberstar]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Gunhilda+Adeleva+Amberstar&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=71 OP]) || 1998-12-12 || Pelican | ||
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|[[Lasair ni Fhionnualann]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Lasair+ni+Fhionnualann&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=1271&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1999-01-09 || Pelican | |[[Lasair ni Fhionnualann]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Lasair+ni+Fhionnualann&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=1271&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1999-01-09 || Pelican | ||
|- | |- | ||
|Rosario Incarboni ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Rosario+Incarboni&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2954&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1999-01-09 || Laurel | |[[Rosario Incarboni]] ([http://herald.ansteorra.org/OP/op-names.php?search=Rosario+Incarboni&submit=search&OP=&order=1&id=2954&NameReg=on&DeviceReg=on OP]) || 1999-01-09 || Laurel | ||
|} | |} | ||
<h3>Notable Events: </h3> | |||
<h4>Ring Around The Rose</h4> | |||
© 1998 Beth Wolff ([[Elanor O'Ruark]])<BR> | |||
<BR> | |||
At Pennsic 27, two great armies took the field.<BR> | |||
Each fighter armed with valor, determined not to yield. <BR> | |||
Barn Silveraxe led Ansteorra, our valiant warrior king, <BR> | |||
And beside him, Ansteorra's Rose; Katrionna, queen.<BR> | |||
Chivalry and honor are every fighter's charge. <BR> | |||
To battle with honor each opponent you engage. <BR> | |||
But chivalry was absent, and honor was not shown <BR> | |||
By those within that circle, the Ring around our Rose. <BR> | |||
Ansteorra's fighters are known the world 'round <BR> | |||
And others fear to face us on the bloody battle ground. <BR> | |||
Our swords are swift, our shield wall strong, our valour like no other. <BR> | |||
For each would gladly sacrifice himself to save his brother! <BR> | |||
Two armies clashed together like waves upon the sea. <BR> | |||
It was weapon meeting weapon in each direction you could see! <BR> | |||
A thousand cries of victory were flung up to the sky, <BR> | |||
And from each test of skill one would live, and one would die. <BR> | |||
The Silveraxe had fallen and was taken from the fray, <BR> | |||
So Ansteorra looked to Kat to rally us that day.<BR> | |||
She was clad in her regalia, the tabard of the Queen. <BR> | |||
The Tudor Rose upon it could easily be seen. <BR> | |||
So the enemy soon found her, and five had ringed her round. <BR> | |||
They took first one leg, then the other, and forced her to the ground. <BR> | |||
They did not fight her one on one from cowardice or fear, <BR> | |||
But trapped her sword behind her head and held her helpless there. <BR> | |||
Barn, his armor on the ground, watched in rage and shock, <BR> | |||
And it took many, many hands to hold His Majesty back! <BR> | |||
So he watched in fury, his Queen brought down by those <BR> | |||
Who had her there surrounded, that Ring around his Rose. <BR> | |||
You did not offer quarter, no chance had she to yield, <BR> | |||
And you cut down the flower of our Kingdom on that field! <BR> | |||
I do not know your names, my lords, or the kingdoms you call home, <BR> | |||
But your actions on the field that day I never can condone.<BR> | |||
Let my story bear a warning to warriors near and far <BR> | |||
Who fight beneath the shining light of Ansteorra's Star. <BR> | |||
Bear your honor proudly and never let you choose <BR> | |||
To trade it for hollow victory, like the Ring around the Rose. <BR> | |||
<BR> | |||
---- | |||
(notes from Kat: Indeed, the only reason Barn gave up trying to get to me was that I tossed my weapon at the feet of my opponents, yielding the fight. I would have happily fought each man in honor combat until I died or they did. I would even have yielded, had I been asked (I was, after all, on my knees and all alone). But neither offer was made. Also worth pointing out that these were Marklanders, not SCAers. To this day I know nothing of the rules they follow in their own organization. I just figured if it took five of them - two literally trapping my shield and sword - to kill me that they could have their "victory" that Ansteorra and I had nothing to prove. To this day I still think it is more important how you win than THAT you win.)<BR> | |||
---- | |||
</div> | </div> | ||
</div> | </div> | ||
[[category:royalty]] | [[category:royalty]] |
Latest revision as of 09:46, 3 June 2024
38th_Crown | Barn Silveraxe and Katrionna McLochlainn | 40th_Crown |
Crown Info:
*King: Barn (Barn Silveraxe) (OP)
*Queen: Katrionna (Katrionna McLochlainn)(OP)
*Crown Tourney: March 28, 1998 at tba
*Coronation: July 12, 1998 at tba
*Stepped down: January 16, 1999 at the Steppes & Rosenfeld
*Predecessors: Jean Richard Malcomson II and Gladwen of Aylesford
*Heirs: Gunthar Jonsson I and Sara Penrose
Overview:
An overview of their reign.
Lion: Tarl Godric the Brokentoe (OP)
Queen's Champion: Brendan McEwen (OP)
Queen's Champion: Miguel Sebastian de Oporto (OP)
Kingdom Warlord: Aaron MacGregor (OP)
Bard: Willow de Wisp (OP)
King's Champion: Gunthar Jonsson (OP)
Queen's Blade of Honor: Donovan Fitzpatrick (OP)
King's Blade of Chivalry: Alexis la Bouche (OP)
King's Gauntlets
- Abdullah bin Omar (OP)
- Anastacia Marie Travarra (OP)
- Dayib bin Omar (OP)
- Donovan Fitzpatrick (OP)
- Gitana de Castile (OP)
- Karl Sturmfeuer (OP)
- Tarl Godric the Brokentoe (OP)
Queen's Gloves
- Aelfwyn Regenward (OP)
- Gitana de Castile (OP)
- Gunhilda Adeleva Amberstar (OP)
- Lucais du Belier (OP)
- Marion inghean u’ Ruanadha (OP)
Peers:
Wilhelm von Buch (OP) | 1998-08-14 | KSCA |
Corinne Elizabeth Drake (OP) | 1998-09-12 | Laurel |
Anastacia Marie Travarra (OP) | 1998-09-26 | Pelican |
Karl der Gaenger (OP) | 1998-09-26 | Pelican |
Xene Theriane (OP) | 1998-09-26 | Laurel |
Ulf Gunnarsson (OP) | 1998-10-10 | Laurel |
Henri le Hibou du Bois (OP) | 1998-10-24 | Pelican |
Robin of Gilwell (OP) | 1998-11-07 | Laurel |
Teleri ferch Pawl (OP) | 1998-11-21 | Laurel |
Beorhlic Folcwineson (OP) | 1998-12-12 | Laurel |
Gunhilda Adeleva Amberstar (OP) | 1998-12-12 | Pelican |
Daniel de Lincoln (OP) | 1999-01-09 | Pelican |
Lasair ni Fhionnualann (OP) | 1999-01-09 | Pelican |
Rosario Incarboni (OP) | 1999-01-09 | Laurel |
Notable Events:
Ring Around The Rose
© 1998 Beth Wolff (Elanor O'Ruark)
At Pennsic 27, two great armies took the field.
Each fighter armed with valor, determined not to yield.
Barn Silveraxe led Ansteorra, our valiant warrior king,
And beside him, Ansteorra's Rose; Katrionna, queen.
Chivalry and honor are every fighter's charge.
To battle with honor each opponent you engage.
But chivalry was absent, and honor was not shown
By those within that circle, the Ring around our Rose.
Ansteorra's fighters are known the world 'round
And others fear to face us on the bloody battle ground.
Our swords are swift, our shield wall strong, our valour like no other.
For each would gladly sacrifice himself to save his brother!
Two armies clashed together like waves upon the sea.
It was weapon meeting weapon in each direction you could see!
A thousand cries of victory were flung up to the sky,
And from each test of skill one would live, and one would die.
The Silveraxe had fallen and was taken from the fray,
So Ansteorra looked to Kat to rally us that day.
She was clad in her regalia, the tabard of the Queen.
The Tudor Rose upon it could easily be seen.
So the enemy soon found her, and five had ringed her round.
They took first one leg, then the other, and forced her to the ground.
They did not fight her one on one from cowardice or fear,
But trapped her sword behind her head and held her helpless there.
Barn, his armor on the ground, watched in rage and shock,
And it took many, many hands to hold His Majesty back!
So he watched in fury, his Queen brought down by those
Who had her there surrounded, that Ring around his Rose.
You did not offer quarter, no chance had she to yield,
And you cut down the flower of our Kingdom on that field!
I do not know your names, my lords, or the kingdoms you call home,
But your actions on the field that day I never can condone.
Let my story bear a warning to warriors near and far
Who fight beneath the shining light of Ansteorra's Star.
Bear your honor proudly and never let you choose
To trade it for hollow victory, like the Ring around the Rose.
(notes from Kat: Indeed, the only reason Barn gave up trying to get to me was that I tossed my weapon at the feet of my opponents, yielding the fight. I would have happily fought each man in honor combat until I died or they did. I would even have yielded, had I been asked (I was, after all, on my knees and all alone). But neither offer was made. Also worth pointing out that these were Marklanders, not SCAers. To this day I know nothing of the rules they follow in their own organization. I just figured if it took five of them - two literally trapping my shield and sword - to kill me that they could have their "victory" that Ansteorra and I had nothing to prove. To this day I still think it is more important how you win than THAT you win.)